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hello this is my quest from my

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department org so I was recently at a

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flat earth conference I was actually

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debating Nathan Thompson on whether the

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earth is flat or round very interesting

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conference and one of the interesting

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things that came out of it was that I

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met a cool guy called Nathan Gonzales

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and he gave me these five photographs

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that he'd taken from Huntington Beach

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these are photographs of Catalina Island

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which is about 32 miles from his

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location and he was showing me these and

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thinking that they were seeing more of

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the island than we should and we see a

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little bit of refraction here down in

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the corner from from the atmosphere the

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photographs are pink because they are

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from a p900 which has been converted so

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it can take full-spectrum meaning it

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includes infrared this means you get

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much clearer images if used a filter you

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get even sharper but it allows you to

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see details when zoomed in of the

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vegetation and the shape this Ridge here

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I think is especially important you'll

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see you later and he took five

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photographs they're all from about the

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same location and they all have GPS data

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in them you can go through them and they

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all have at the same

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GPS location down here just on the beach

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and that allowed me to go into Google

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Earth and find this viewpoint and set up

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a view that's the same so let's say this

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is me taking a photograph from Vegas

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just shouts there using my infrared

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camera you see you get very very clear

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shots with an infrared camera with the

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over here on the left is where he is on

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Huntington Beach you see it's the same

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location as in here and in this GPS yeah

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you can see this this waterway here just

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right here same place and I just

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actually copied and pasted it the GPS

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locations and then what we're looking at

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over here is twin harbours twin harbours

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is this little town here but from this

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position we're looking at it like this

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and it looks like a bit of a dip in the

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island from far away over here and what

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we actually see is just like a fairly

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small bit because we're zoomed in a long

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way doesn't mean we have to get closer

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just me as the camera zoomed in let me

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show you what the field of view is on

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this I did a little feel the view thingy

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and these green lines here gonna show

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you what the field of view is it's a

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little kind of pyramid called a frost

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bump which shows you what you're

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actually looking at now I try to

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replicate his photograph and an

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interesting thing about Catalina is it's

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got very very steep sides in a Gerber to

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Catalina but all these markets and I'll

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show those will show you what those are

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for later it's got very very Street

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steep sides they're almost like 45

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degrees or more so it's it's an

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excellent opportunity to see how much is

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hidden because you often get this long

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slope in front of mountains in other

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places and it kind of confuses the issue

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of it here it's straight up and this I

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think is about quarter of a mile from

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this peak here to here and this this is

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what we're seeing this is the top of the

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image and it's nearly 700 feet high 211

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meters 692 feet and we're actually gonna

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be looking at that let me show you from

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the Nathans point of view here so go

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over to Nathan's viewpoint here and we

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look down here and this is what he sees

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is this little bit here and this will be

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the same as in his images at this one

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here but get into the comparisons more

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in a minute all right

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and let's do the actual view if we go

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down to two meters above sea level and

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go down here and zoom in

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you actually see what Nathan is seeing

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and what I can do in this instance is

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turn off the water in Google Earth if

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it's in of the water the water surface

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because the ocean dips down in between

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nothing is actually obscured you can

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actually see pretty much all the way to

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the the bottom of the mountain over

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there and then we can actually overlay a

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photograph into this view and we can see

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how much of this is actually visible now

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I did that by taking a screenshot of

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this particular image this is from

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Nathan's location water switched off you

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can see that if I turn the water on its

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gonna give you a pretty good clue as to

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where it's gonna be goes right up here

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is where the water surface would be on a

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globe earth because we've got it

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rational and whatnot to deal with but

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you know this is gonna give you a pretty

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good flow of what we're actually gonna

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see so I just took this screenshot went

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into Photoshop and here is that

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screenshot I think we've got down here I

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asked you 12 feet 12 feet above the

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water level which is kind of like the

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beach a little ways not very very far

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and standing up and this is what you see

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on 12 12 feet away with the water

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switched off so you can see all the way

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to the bottom this is the actual water

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line here and I took Nations photographs

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and I try to match them so here is you

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think I've got that down and there we go

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here's one of them you can see it here's

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the contour and it matches the actual

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console you can good web checking that

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out is - I just move it around and you

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can see it matches exactly so this is

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the actual contour and there's the

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contour on the other side it's slightly

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distorted because it's a bit further

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away but this one you know I could say

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it's very close to the water so you get

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a very straight up and down very

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straight on view and we just don't do

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that so it moves back into position

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so this is this particular photograph

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here's the water line that we're seeing

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way up here of the hill and here's all

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the stuff that's missing all the way

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down to I guess around her here so about

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two-thirds or so of the hill is missing

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now I put some markers on this in Google

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Earth let me just show you the other

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photographs here is another one just

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basically the same thing again this this

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Hills slightly off because it's further

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away and refraction actually raises up

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the hill very slightly so it's it's

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further back you get this a tiny little

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correction that you need here because of

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refraction standard refraction and of

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spirit refraction raising it up and then

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one more which was one where he's oom

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din a lot now we can zoom in let me turn

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off the other two it's not right yeah

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there we go hey zoom in on this you can

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see again it matches just fine it's more

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distortion here you can kind of II know

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this stuff here down here because it's

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just atmospheric distortion because of

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being very close to the water surface if

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you have a line of sight as close to the

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water surface it misses up anyway here's

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the horizon up here all this is missing

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down here and a similar type of thing

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from all the others Nathan was actually

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kind of crouching down and standing up

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trying to take this photos and that does

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actually make a significant distance

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difference to this region because your

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position within the your line of sight

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in the close to the water is changing

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quite a bit by standing up and down but

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the tops of the mountains really don't

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move very much air back into Google

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Earth keep this image in mind this

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filter here is just a contrast filter

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doesn't change anything

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keep this image in mind about 2/3 of the

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way up just below this Ridge there's

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this Ridge here and I'm gonna go back in

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to Google Earth and let me just turn off

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some things so that we you get mister

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I'm just gonna go at C over to p1 p1 is

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the point that's on top of the ridge

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that we were looking at so this is the

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ridge this is the top of the photograph

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it is this point here is this rich and

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you can kind of zoom back and go down

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and you can kind of see that from lower

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down and there's a whole bunch of other

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points that I've marked off just so we

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can figure out how much of the mountain

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is obscured so 700 feet the top of this

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Ridge and if you remember there was this

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Ridge which is in front of it

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and our line of sight was around about

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here so if we go to this point here

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directly below it that's 475 feet and

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what I actually did is I put in a plane

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which skims the surface of the water

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this horizon plane here and it kind of

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shows you what you'd expect on a

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geometric earth with no no atmosphere

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that's still having an ocean and you

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would expect it to be about here because

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of refraction it's a bit lower than that

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you see a little bit more but this can

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you see a good idea as to what what to

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expect so here's our multiple points p1

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is a 692 feet p2 is at 100 475 feet and

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p3 is a 328 feet and our actual

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photographs show that all we can see is

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like about two up here all of this is

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missing and we know for sure that at

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least 300 when you get features missing

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because this bit here this point here is

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not visible in these images and so you

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can't assume in on one of them is just

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probably the best one like you can see

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this whole Ridge here and this bit here

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so this whole Ridge here and so we're

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about at this level that were probably a

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bit above that

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for 328 feet mark and what about level

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with this but that's on your point of

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view I think yeah good thing about going

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leaner again is that you can actually

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just take a boat out of there you could

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actually go over here you can drive up

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to this region here this is a heliport

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on Catalina Island and you can go there

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and you can see just how high this this

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hill is it is actually 700 feet high

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it's very good very straightforward and

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you know here's the the cliffs over here

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you could probably walk up this cliff

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here it looks like there's some paths I

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just being guilty paths but you could

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probably hike up there if you already

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wanted and you could do verify this is

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the actual height and you could verify

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this is what you can see - and if you

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were really ambitious you could go up

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here with a laser and start flashing

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your laser towards the other side you

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probably could be able to see it with a

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powerful enough laser in the evening and

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you better see about where you were here

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be careful you don't fall down the cliff

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obviously I've actually this is an

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excellent demonstration of the curve of

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the earth because we're we're missing

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the whole bottom part of this island and

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if you do the math for how much you'd

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expect to be missing with the curve

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calculator 32 miles away

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I put the viewer height here in feet

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here just three feet which is a bit

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lowest program much lower than it

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actually is

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yeah you'd expect to see refracted

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hidden 500 feet and what was the top

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here it was nearly 700 feet 692 feet to

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the top so refracted hidden would be

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somewhere down here from 3 feet at this

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level but I think Nathan's probably more

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about 6 to 10 feet but there's little

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ways up the beach 6 feet gives a hidden

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of 472 which is more like you know what

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we see right here this area chopping off

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the top so I think you pretty much

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almost exactly what you'd expect

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refraction does vary a lot that's one

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thing I said at the conference was you

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got to rise above refraction you've got

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to make your line of sight to things be

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above refraction because as you can see

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when you look at the line of sight of

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things that are very close to the water

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surface you get all this refraction but

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looking up higher like this Ridge here

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and it's top of this mountain here in

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the Southern Ridge you can you're not

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really getting anything other than

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standard atmospheric River

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refraction from the changing gradient

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there you go a good demonstration of the